My long discussion with Sean Baligian about trading Calvin Johnson

This morning, on my way into work, I was listening to WDFN hosted by Sean Baligian and Tom "the Killer" Kowalski. They brought up an article by Drew Sharp in which Sharp entertains the idea of trading Calvin Johnson for draft picks and rebuilding the defense.

Kowalski thought the idea ludicrous.

To give credit where credit is due, it was not the first time I had heard the idea. Mike Valenti and Terry Foster of WXYT brought up this possibility a few weeks ago. And yesterday Valenti brought up the truly ludicrous idea of packaging Detroit's #1 pick and CJ to move up and get Ndamkong Suh. Whereas I'll learn to do cartwheels if they get Suh, that trade would be horrendous.

But I am not against the idea of trading Calvin Johnson for picks. In my mind, the most logical trading partner would be the Baltimore Ravens and I think adequate compensation would be the Ravens first and third round picks this year, plus a first or second round pick next year.

Why even entertain the idea of trading Johnson? Because the Lions offense is abysmal even with Johnson. It'll be just as abysmal without him. The Lions have too many needs and the idea of being able to add half a defense (with the Lions current picks along with the new picks) at the expense of one great player is very appealing.

Bill Parcells has shown, on numerous occasions, that the fastest road back to respectability in the NFL is to build a solid defense.

So I called in. I'll see if I can't find that audio too.

And following that discussion, I had the following email chain with Sean, who hosts "Fantasy Sports Geekly" on WDFN, which is why his emails come from "geekly".

Many thanks to Sean for giving me permission to publish this. There are typos. Sorry.

Me to Geekly 8:12 am

Trading Calvin Johnson is the kind of deal that could build a real franchise. Adding a 1st and a 3rd this year allows for the Lions to take FIVE defensive players. Building a defense can allow this team to have a chance to be in games. This team is never going to be a 50+ points per week. The Lions don't have adequate guards, tackles, running backs or a second WR. Keeping CJ is typical "Lions Logic" ie keep the flash, forget the trenches. You win with defense. Five picks in the top 100? 3 DL, 2 CB's? How about keeping opponents in the 20's and maybe the Lions could be in games in the fourth quarter.

You don't think that Baltimore would jump at the chance to pair up Johnson and Flacco? And by the way, what kind of deal did the Ravens give up to get Flacco?

Thanks,

Derrick
strugglingsportsreporter.blogspot.com

Geekly to Me 8:21am

Derrick, You are working under the assumption that they GET a deal like that, they don't just fall into your lap like the Jerry Jones deal, NOBODY wants to be the next Mike Lynn or Jerry Jones, they are chastised up and down for making those deals! I agree, 100% on building the trenches, I have preached that for years, but, having the #4 pick in the draft is huge, and it can be a slow, arduous process if they make the RIGHT choices..based on last years draft..

Me to Geekly 8:25 am

A 1st and a 3rd this year, another 1st next year. To a team like Baltimore desperate for a big play WR, a team that's been looking for a WR for years. I'm not saying trade him for two picks...I'm saying if you get 3+ picks. And I'm certainly saying you shop it and see if you can get it.

Geekly to me 8:26 am

IF you get something like that, I will listen to be sure…again, I think that that is a giant assumption...I just don't think that deal occurs based on the hammering that Lynn, Jones et al received

Me to Geekly 8:46 am

2008-Baltimore traded its first-round selection to Jacksonville for Jacksonville's first-round selection, two third-round selections, and fourth-round selection (No. 26, 71, 89, 125). All for Joe Flacco. Baltimore seems to trade every year. Last year they traded up for

2009-Micheal Oher. New England traded its first-round selection (23rd overall, used to select Michael Oher) to Baltimore for first- and fifth-round selections (26th overall, traded to Green Bay, who selected Clay Matthews; and 162nd overall, traded to Green Bay, who selected Jamon Meredith

Geekly to me 8:48 am

Derrick, look at the draft choices you are talking about 26th overall, not 4th overall where you can still grab a McCoy and retain CJ..the chances of getting impactful players at 71,89, 125 and 162 gp down greatly, especially with this franchise..in fairness, Mayhew had a nice draft from last year.

Me to Geekly 8:52 am

Flacco was an 18, which is where Baltimore currently stands. Now, you're looking at 4-5 picks. Mayhew has kept 6 of his 7 picks this year and all have contributed. Can he do it again? Who know, but I'd like to give him a chance.

Levy is a starter. Sammie Hill is a starter. The Lions don't have starters! 4 or 5 starters? 1 WR.

It would be the draft heard round the world if the Leo's go offense with the first two picks.

Geekly to me 8:56 am

I would like to give him the chance, with a #4, and CJ and the rest of the picks…you are gambling with later picks, simply put

Me to Geekly 8:58 am

The Saints are doing what they're doing, because they brought in Gregg Williams who has given them a decent defense. They had the same offense last year.

Geekly to me 8:59 am

You can't at #4, NO WAY, I will puke, grab McCoy there!

Me to Geekly 9:00 am

Unless both Suh and McCoy are gone, there is no way they draft Okung like Killer is saying.

Geekly to me 8:59

That is a massive assumption, that they can turn 71`, 89, 125 and 162 into starters, massive. You paid the man the bulk of his contract AND can franchise him, this is two years away, and CAN be done through the draft with retaining a good young WR, it is not a quick fix scheme, it a simply is not

Geekly to me 9:04 am

Their offense was not an issue last year at all, it was their defense. I don't agree with Killer on the D issue, that must be addressed

Me to Geekly 9:11 am

A good NFL draft finds 3-4 "contributing" players. This last draft was exceptional. I'm not saying he can do it again, but give him a chance.

Baltimore has been begging for a #1 WR for 3-4 years. The NY Jets don't have a #1 and they just bought their franchise QB. Just put him on the market and see what is out there.

Sorry, don't have a #1 WR.

Me to Geekly 9:14 am

If you keep CJ, then you have another year where the defense can't be logically addressed. If you don't go offense with a T, a guard or two, a RB, CJ will be wasted for another year.

I am cheering Mayhew's draft, not criticizing.

It's even funnier what happened to New Orleans when they got a good defensive coordinator.

Geekly to me 9:14 am

I agree, give him a chance again with the #4 pick and a #1 WR already established..and the picks in place unless we get a Jerry Jones deal.

Geekly to me 9:17 am

CJ is not a #1?!

Geekly to me 9:19 am

Why can't it be based on having the #4 pick and the draft choices we already have? Especially since you yourself keep citing the success of last year?

Me to Geekly 9:27 am

It is a several year project to recreate the Lions, but it can be quicker. That's all I'm saying. I'm meant that the Jets also don't have a #1 WR, the Jets might be interested too.

My point earlier was, if you're keeping CJ, your most likely keeping your focus on the offense. If you want the most out of Johnson, then you need a new RB, a new T, some guards. And I think you do that at the expense of the defense.

I'm a fan, we're all fans, we've all been waiting for decades. Is it a chance at a quick fix? No, not really. It's a chance to be a quicker fix.

Geekly to me 9:35 am

I understand that, I really do…but, you can keep CJ and use Mayhew’s normal draft choices and reach that goal if we base it on his picks from just last year, if he has that success over the next TWO drafts then we are a better team, and have a real WR

Me to Geekly 9:37

I'm not saying what that this is going to happen, but Drafttek.com does a pretty good job. And it gives you an idea. This is assuming a 1st and 3rd pick this year for Johnson.

1	4	Detroit	*Gerald McCoy	DT43	Oklahoma
1	20	Detroit	Greg Hardy	DE43	Mississippi
2	36	Detroit	*Joe Haden	CB	Florida
3	68	Detroit	*Cameron Heyward	DE43	Ohio State
3	83	Detroit	*Gabe Carimi	OT	Wisconsin
4	99	Detroit	*Rennie Curran	SS	Georgia
5	131	Detroit	*Rodney Hudson	OG	Florida State
6	163	Detroit	Geno Atkins	DT43	Georgia
7	194	Detroit	*Chykie Brown	CB	Texas

Haden won't be there in the second, but maybe a Patrick Robinson?

Geekly to me 9:38 am

"Assuming"

Me to Geekly 9:39 am

Thanks for the spirited discussion. I have to start doing some actual work this morning.

Thanks.

Geekly to me 9:43 am

Thank you..and if they get a great deal, a Jerry Jones deal, I'll listen.